Shelby:
Hi everyone welcome back to another episode of small steps to self love. I have a special guest Jayne Martin here with me today. I'm really excited to chat with Jayne about her new book and about abandonment and some different things that we're gonna talk about today. Her book is titled the daddy chronicles memoir of a fatherless daughter which I had the pleasure of reading and it was really interesting. it was kind of told in these short chapters I guess you would say about your childhood about the abandonment of your father and some other really interesting themes so I'm really excited to have you here. I believe I met you Jayne first through the poetry club you joined the poetry club.
Jayne:
Yes yes.
Shelby:
which is an online poetry community that I run so it's been great getting to know you there and really cute to get to know you more here in this chat so I'd love to pass it over to you too OK yourself anything you wanna share about your book your career and you have an interesting background with TV writing I believe.
Jayne:
TV writing yes for I spent about 20 years writing movies for television so it really it carries over into my current work because I'm very scene oriented. I tend to write in more as a dramatist so I did that for about 20 years and then I I started doing flash fiction which again is is really just short scenes so it came naturally to me to kind of attend to be very concise now in all my writing. and then I published a book tender cuts and that's a collection of flash fiction and then I started on this memoir and it was it was kind of surprising. I didn't plan on writing about my father I was in a workshop and we were given all these different prompts and these memories just started coming up to me very strongly. and so I wrote them down and it was it it was quite an emotional experience. I kind of thought like that I had dealt with all of that anger toward my father because I was I'm an adult now and I and I had an intellectual way but what I didn't realize what there was still a child in me, and she was saying wait a minute I'm still hurting and so I knew that I had to give her a voice. and the book starts out very much in her voice and then as it progresses it grows into my adolescent voice and my young adult voice and then my my it's complete adult voice so that's a that's a little bit about how how it happened.
Shelby:
yeah it's interesting to hear you talk about how you made that decision to write from that younger perspective.
Jayne:
So she just, yeah it is like she never, I didn't realize all the anger I still had inside me and it was coming from that young person that is always there that is kind of hardwired by our early childhood years and those things stay in there and you learn to adapt and and deal with them and and everything but they're kind of hard wired and and it it really came up in her voice. and I thought well then I will give you a voice. and what was interesting is by the time I finished the book so much of that had dissipated just by getting it out of my body and onto a page highly recommend that.
Shelby:
I love that concept of giving your younger self a voice that they maybe didn't have at the time that you were experiencing those things.
Jayne:
yeah yeah it was it became a a real conversation.
Shelby:
right yeah that's so interesting I think your honor that you have to honor that inner child yes definitely I feel like that's a more common I know like healing your inner child is a very like top like hot topic right now and so it's really great that people are kind of exploring that and realizing that their inner child needs healing and needs attention and needs to get that anger out or whatever those feelings are, so I think it's amazing that you were able to process it in that way.
Jayne:
Thank you
Shelby:
yeah definitely, would you read I know we mentioned about reading the prologue of the book which you share the intro to the book so readers and listeners have an idea?
Jayne:
I will and I'm a newbie poet. I come to poetry very late in life and but this this was one of my first poems and it's the prologue to the book and it's called ode to the lone sperm. eager little swimmer perhaps my competitive nature comes from you who didn't get the memo that fertilization was not my father's intent. content as he was to have my mother all to himself but you, you failed to notice your brethren sperm treading water not even trying trying to tell you that he's up little fella these guys just going through the motions motions or emotions would never bloom and in your haste to win the race, a child growing in the shadow of his withholding, a child always wondering why.
Shelby:
wow oh that ending, and I love the play on words with motions and emotions and I love the I mean there's a little bit of sarcastic tone there right it does come through. wow awesome thank you for reading that and I think that's an amazing poem no matter how late in life you found poetry. I'm glad you found poetry.
Jayne:
thank you thank you very much I'm excited about it.
Shelby:
yeah so when we were talking about this episode you shared with me that one in three women in the United states are fatherless which is a shocking number to me but maybe not shocking to people who have experienced that. So what did it mean for you to write this book and Share your story for other women who have had a similar experience?
Jayne:
well I I was blown away when I came across that because you see it's a being fatherless is very much a source of shame. it's a silent epidemic. women don't talk about it because well if you're fathered abandoned you, dumped you, didn't want you obviously the problem is you. and of course it's not but we don't talk about it and so all my life I didn't think about others having the same issues or the same hurts as I did. I just felt alone and I came across a book called the fatherless daughter project by Denna Babel and that's where I found the statistic and they're kind of new like there is there is a tribe out there it's a sad tribe but there's a tribe and this book could be helpful. I wish I had this book when I was decades younger because maybe if I could have seen somebody else's behavior and it mirrored mine I could have seen how destructive it was much earlier I could have recognized, my God I do that too and it would have given me some kind of a guide. so yeah I call it my my journey from hurt to healing and and there are there are so many women out there it's it's really staggering so that's it became something that I could I could do to connect with others who who felt the same way and you know just let them know that they're not alone and it's not you and it was never you.
and it was always him and that's pretty much the message of the book.
Shelby:
yeah that's such an important message, really powerful work that you're doing with this book.
Jayne:
you know it's amazing and also I found that I I have I've let go of my anger toward him. I was really able at an emotional level to let go of it and realize that a person can only give what they have. whatever was going on with him I don't know and he he really ended up having a very lonely life so it's not like he went on to have great happiness. he didn't so it was you know I I don't harbor that kind of anger toward him anymore right. and that that that feels good right
Shelby:
Definitely. do you feel like it, because you mentioned the beginning whenever you wrote about him you didn't expect to ever write about him, was it something that you thought about often as an adult? did you notice the effect that it maybe had with other relationships in your life?
Jayne:
Oh no I absolutely saw the correlation there. I absolutely did I spent my life seeking out emotionally unavailable men like my father and trying to get them to love me and that's very common very common. and then when a when a potential healthy relationship would come along I would just push that away I would think I'm not gonna give you my heart because you'll abandon me. so I was I couldn't win either way and I I will still I still have real trust issues when it comes to men um but I mean I managed to go and I I never got married I am single and that's fine it works for me. but yeah you can go on and have a very happy life if you kind of I think if I had recognized maybe that pattern when I was much younger but it it took me you know almost into my 40s for me to go “oh that's what I'm doing” and then I just was hardwired that way right. yeah big abandonment, intimacy and trust issues you know in terms of letting people get close to me.
Shelby:
what do you think was the turning point in you realizing this about yourself? like what would you maybe say to someone who is younger?
Jayne:
OK this is this is gonna be really strange but I I I'm just gonna put it out there. I went through first of all another thing that fatherless daughters will do is become promiscuous. very often they will use sex to get love because when you're being held you know you can call that it feels like love right. so that's part of my life was was always getting me in trouble that's the sex drive. well I went through an early menopause I went through menopause when I was in my early 40s and it was very quick and it was over and it took my sex drive with it and I begin to notice something. I began to notice that I wasn't scratching after men. I wasn't in healthy relationships I was taking all that energy that I had put out trying to find somebody to love me and I was putting it in myself. and I was writing and I got the horse. I always wanted a horse and I I just I blossomed as a person and I realized that that behavior was kind of an addictive behavior and now I kind of it's one of the things, like no I don't wanna ever go back to that because I'm afraid of being sucked back into that pattern again.
yeah that's what I noticed it. when I hit 40 and realized that I wasn't I wasn't I didn't have that need which for me was a destructive need, not for other people but for me it was destructive.
Shelby:
yeah that makes sense
Jayne:
so yeah that was the big epiphany and honestly I've never been happier.
Shelby:
good well I'm glad to hear that definitely. Would you read an excerpt from your book, another excerpt? I know that I picked a couple out that I enjoyed but anyone that you'd like to read.
Jayne:
I will I will this is called “and then he is gone.” when daddy leaves us for the last time he wears a blue pinstripe suit with a freshly pressed handkerchief in his chest pocket a fedora hat and black oxfords that shine like new pennies. tall and oh so handsome he looks just like one of those movie stars that smile out from the covers of magazines mommy keeps on her vanity. my small hands pressed against the window I draw a heart with my finger in the circle of my breath as I watch him carry his suitcase across the busy city street, growing smaller with each step he takes away from us. the bill of the cable car rings out as it passes and then he is gone, never having turned never seeing me still waving long after he disappears. my heart melts and slides down the glass for weeks after that I still ask when is daddy coming home? he had left us before, left and came back, left and came back. upon each return I would run into his arms, his embrace short and stiff but enough for me to breathe in his scent clothes and pine capturing it in my memory like a Firefly in a Mason jar. you knew he wasn't a family man when you married him my grandmother says to my mother, but she's looking at me and though I don't know what family man means I see mommy turn her head to hide her tears. when daddy comes back I'll be such a good girl, such a good girl, I said. my tummy starts to hurt and I crawl up into daddy's chair my bare legs sticking to the leather, my tiny bottom trying to fill the space left by his and wonder what I could have done to make him stay.
Shelby:
that one really stood out to me because it seems like so immediate that you as a child were blaming yourself for this, is that right in saying that?
Jayne:
that's what they do, children will blame themselves. they're not gonna blame their parents their parents are you know their parents are perfect. I mean they can't win their parents they have to blame themselves in all sorts of situation you know divorce and alcoholism fighting you know. when parents fight children will blame themselves so yeah yeah that's what we do and then we grow up blaming ourselves right.
Shelby:
that one was so powerful and you’re right. you can just tell what a writer you are with all the imagery and and everything. did you whenever you wrote that particular chapter or really any of the chapters, did all those details come to you very easily or did you have to kind of dig for those in your memory?
Jayne:
I wrote a first draft of course and then I went back and I rewrote it yeah but but it really kind of sort of poured into me from another place it was very unusual I I haven't had it happened before I usually have to scratch and bite my head against the wall and all of that but it just they really the feeling came on and when the feelings came on I remembered I remembered those spots and I and I was surprised of things that I remembered that I hadn't thought about in years and all of a sudden I go Oh my God so it's all stored in there and it and it it helps if you can get it out I I would suggest if you just write to yourself. write letters to yourself. write letters to your to your younger self. it helped me to get it out.
Shelby (small step):
definitely I've done that as well: writing letters to my past self to work through different emotions or feelings or events in my life too so that's a really great advice. and I don't know if you have listened to past episodes but every episode I give like a small step for my listeners to do each week so I think that's a good one for this week is to write a letter to your younger self to your past self and see what comes out and see what you can kind of work through
Jayne:
Yeah and let them have a voice let them say what what do you wanna say to me what didn't you get to say? and you will be surprised at what comes up and and then you begin to have that.
Shelby:
yeah that's a wonderful prompt yeah great advice. there is a chapter in your book also that really caught my attention it talked about changing the spelling of your name. could you talk a little bit about that decision and like what major factors?
Jayne:
that was part of me wanting to be more glamorous and more desirable so someone would love me because obviously nobody loved playing Jane and I always always get taunted and called out and it was the time when my father was dying and I just I wanted to be more glamorous. I wanted to I was around 14 no I was around 16 then maybe 17 and you know going into those years I just wanted to be not playing I wanted to be somebody that could attract someone somebody maybe I don't know my father would have loved so it was it was that it was just you know like like you bleach your hair you want you wanna look something different and I just decided this is who I am now it was just that I wanted to be more than I thought it was yeah it's identifying more with Jane Mansfield and Jane Fonda bad choice choice but there you go I wasn't secure enough right. I needed something else.
Shelby:
Yeah that's really interesting. do you feel like that I mean didn't really make a huge impact on your life but do you do you feel like it did at first?
Jayne:
I do feel like a little different person. I felt more adult like I was on the path to creating Yeah for whatever reason I also bleached my hair so got the combo. so so I think it was just A and then when I when I I started out as a model and an actress and I could have changed my name completely then uh but for some reason I didn't I just said no this is my name. but but I did change that that one spelling it seemed to make a difference to me.
Shelby:
Yeah that's good awesome and then since just this podcast is about self love journeys and all of that and we've talked a little bit about the long term kind of effects that the abandonment and trust issues and everything has had on you. do you feel like this had an impact on how you how you viewed yourself and how you self love, how you maybe take care of yourself now?
Jayne:
well it did when I was younger certainly but I I've really I can look at the life that I created that he had no part of this is what and I can look at my accomplishments and I feel proud of myself and I and and I take great care of myself and I value myself and all of that grew but it was post 40 years old you know but but now I feel very very healthy. I know that I will always have trust issues of an issues and you know an intimacy issues but they don't rule my life. I can look at those and go OK that's part of who I am I'm also not good at math and as much as I love to sing. I’m tone deaf so I can kind of put it in those are skills I don't have but I have all these other skills that I manifested and that I get to take responsibility for and those are much more important so.
Shelby:
I like that that that perspective. I also Can't Sing so I relate to that. I'm so glad that you did you know become happier with yourself and treat yourself well and value yourself like that's so important. wonderful well this is wonderful.
Jayne:
thank you so much for the interviews I'm really thrilled to have been here and had an opportunity to talk about my journey and to talk about the book and I hope that people who made you read it and you know understand that the men's response has been really very positive. I did a reading with a bunch of men in the audience for the first time at AWP in Philadelphia this year and I said to them you know they're all looking at me like what do I care? and I said you know you should really care about this book. first of all because you never wanna daughter of yours writing one like it. because you may have a little girl or have one already and you need to be there for her and also because you may be dating a woman with the same problems and wondering what the heck is going on with her, and I said this is your handbook. so I think it's an important book whether you're a fatherless daughter or whether you going to better understanding of someone you know who is right?
Shelby:
Yeah, that's a great point. Thanks. so where can people find your book where can people find you and learn more about you?
Jayne:
it's on Amazon, my website you can go to my website which is Jaynemartin-writer.com and it has all the places here that you can you can get it, indie books, Barnes and nobles, available in kindle and I'm thinking about doing an audio. yeah I think anybody can order it you go to your local bookstore they can order it.
Shelby:
perfect I'll put the links in the description as well so people can find you. thank you so much. definitely this is wonderful, thank you again for your time and opening up about some hard stuff to talk about. I appreciate that a lot.
Jayne:
well I think you, you know I think it's important. I don't want other other women to feel that it's just them it's not. they're all here for you.
Shelby:
Absolutely it's a wonderful message. alright well thank you everyone for listening have a wonderful week!